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Matthew 24:3 All of it in the Olivet Discourse
1. Matthew 24:3 All of it in the Olivet Discourse
This content is being developed.
2. Matthew 23:38-39 End of chapter
3. Questions
There are some obvious questions from the discourse in Matthew 23 that appear to be unanswered.
What does the "house" represent? Might it be, via hand motions, the large crowds of people at the temple for the passover week requirements?
Is the "house" forgiven?
How does the "house" relate with the physical infrastructure of the temple?
When will the religious elite stop taking advantage of the common person and sincerely say to them that they are blessed because they come in the name of the Lord.
When this happens, the religious elite will finally see Jesus as he is. When might this take place?
When into the future might the religious elite start actually working together with the common person for the good that is desired by Jesus and God?
Do we ever see these questions being asked? If so, does Jesus ever provide answers? Stay tuned. That is, you need to keep your listening devices in tune to hear what is being said.
These ideas of the rapture lead to the idea of the acronym
BIBLE (Basic Instructions Before Leaving Earth).
4. Matthew 24:1-2 Seeing the cites at the house of the temple
In Matthew 23:1-2, the disciples show Jesus the sites of the temple. Perhaps they are citing the house of the temple. Let us check it out.
Matthew 24:1 And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple. [kjv]
24:2 And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down. [kjv]
Isn't that nice? The disciples want to "
show" Jesus the
"buildings" of the "
temple". Had he ever seen them before? Had the disciples ever seen them before. Why does Jesus need to point out what they are already "
seeing"?
What follows is called the "
Olivet Discourse" , which spans Matthew chapters 24 and 25, where Jesus tells about "
all of it" (play on words) as in "
Ol-i-vet".
5. Matthew 24:1-2 Paraphrase
Matthew 24:1 And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple. [kjv]
24:2 And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down. [kjv]
Paraphrase:
24:1. And Jesus went out from the temple and his disciples came. Show (demonstrate, example) us (with respect to) it (the house. people worshiping) the edification/building (purpose) of the temple! 24:2 So Jesus answered and said to them. Do not look at these at all. Amen, I say to you (connect the dots). There will not be forgiven in this way (as done here) one stone (piece of sand) on/against stone (piece of sand) that will not be dissolved (as a residence). Perhaps, using to one cookie rule, none of these pieces of sand will be thrown down
forever.
This partially answers the questions of the disciples. Some will come back with the same questions for a more private answer. They do not want to look stupid in front of the other disciples.
6. Matthew 5:18 Jots and tittles
Matthew 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. [kjv]
αμην γαρ λεγω υμιν εως αν παρελθη ο ουρανος και η γη ιωτα εν η μια κεραια ου μη παρελθη απο του νομου εως αν παντα γενηται [gnt]
Paraphrase:
It is so that until heaven and earth pass by, not one jot (spots, blemishes, empty opinion) nor one tittle (horns, invalid logic, extra rules) will pass by from man's viewpoint (but all will pass by from God's viewpoint) until all (the new heaven and new earth) come into being.
[opinion not put under a measure but held up for all in the birdhouse]
7. Matthew 5:18 Jots and tittles
Matthew 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. [kjv]
αμην γαρ λεγω υμιν εως αν παρελθη ο ουρανος και η γη ιωτα εν η μια κεραια ου μη παρελθη απο του νομου εως αν παντα γενηται [gnt]
Will the religious establishment be upset if you remove any
"jots" (blemishes, personal opinions, etc.) or
"tittles" (extra rules, invalid logic, etc.) that are used to oppress the faithful and support their (false) house (nest and belly)?
How might the religious establishment react? What might they do? Jesus addresses this in the
next two verses (and thereafter).
8. Matthew 24:3 All of it in the Olivet Discourse
In the "
Olivet Discourse" , which spans Matthew chapters 24 and 25, Jesus tells about "
all of it" (play on words) as in "
Ol-i-vet".
Matthew 24:3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world? [kjv]
καθημενου δε αυτου επι του ορους των ελαιων προσηλθον αυτω οι μαθηται κατ ιδιαν λεγοντες ειπον ημιν ποτε ταυτα εσται και τι το σημειον της σης παρουσιας και συντελειας του αιωνος [gnt]
This verse, from the middle of the 1800's, has become the foundation of theology, books, etc., on the "
End Times". Beliefs, sometimes fanatical, in the
inerrancy of the Bible, became solidified from these beliefs.
9. Strongs - privately
*G2398 *113 ἴδιος (id'-ee-os) : of uncertain affinity; pertaining to self, i.e. one's own; by implication, private or separate:--X his acquaintance, when they were alone, apart, aside, due, his (own, proper, several), home, (her, our, thine, your) own (business), private(-ly), proper, severally, their (own).
 |
Words: ιδια=22 ιδιαις=2 ιδιαν=24 ιδιας=6 ιδιοι ιδιοις=10 ιδιον=18 ιδιος ιδιου=11 ιδιους=5 ιδιω=7 ιδιων=6
|
"ἴδιος" ≈ "pertaining to self, one's own, private (not public)".
"ιδιας" ≈ "own" (feminine genitive singular, feminine genitive plural)
10. Matthew 24:3 Privately
Matthew 24:3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world? [kjv]
καθημενου δε αυτου επι του ορους των ελαιων προσηλθον αυτω οι μαθηται κατ ιδιαν λεγοντες ειπον ημιν ποτε ταυτα εσται και τι το σημειον της σης παρουσιας και συντελειας του αιωνος [gnt]
In ancient times, and sometimes today, teachers would "
sit" to "
teach". This appears to have been a
"private" briefing.
"ἴδιος" ≈ "pertaining to self, one's own, private (not public)".
"ιδιας" ≈ "own" (feminine genitive singular, feminine genitive plural)
11. Mark 13:3
Mark 13:3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives over against the temple, Peter and James and John and Andrew asked him privately, [kjv]
και καθημενου αυτου εις το ορος των ελαιων κατεναντι του ιερου επηρωτα αυτον κατ ιδιαν πετρος και ιακωβος και ιωαννης και ανδρεας [gnt]
The briefing, as remembered by Peter and related to Mark, is a
"private" briefing.
"ἴδιος" ≈ "pertaining to self, one's own, private (not public)".
12. Mark 13:3
KJV: And as he sat upon the mount of Olives over against the temple, Peter and James and John and Andrew asked him privately,
Greek: και καθημενου αυτου εις το ορος των ελαιων κατεναντι του ιερου επηρωτων επηρωτα αυτον κατ ιδιαν πετρος και ιακωβος και ιωαννης και ανδρεας
13. Luke 21:6-7 Public briefing
Luke 21:6 As for these things which ye behold, the days will come, in the which there shall not be left one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down. [kjv]
21:7 And they asked him, saying, Master, but when shall these things be? and what sign will there be when these things shall come to pass? [kjv]
From the context in Luke, based on what people remembered and told Luke some twenty years later, there is
no mention of this being a
"private" briefing.
Be careful not to confuse the
private discourse about the end times in
Matthew and
Mark with the public discourse in Luke at the temple. They are much the same, but with some important differences.
 |
Details are left as a future topic.
|
14. Luke 21:6
KJV: As for these things which ye behold, the days will come, in the which there shall not be left one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.
Greek: ταυτα α θεωρειτε ελευσονται ημεραι εν αις ουκ αφεθησεται λιθος επι λιθω ωδε ος ου καταλυθησεται
15. Luke 21:7
KJV: And they asked him, saying, Master, but when shall these things be? and what sign will there be when these things shall come to pass?
Greek: επηρωτησαν δε αυτον λεγοντες διδασκαλε ποτε ουν ταυτα εσται και τι το σημειον οταν μελλη ταυτα γινεσθαι
16. Matthew 24:3 These things
Matthew 24:3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world? [kjv]
καθημενου δε αυτου επι του ορους των ελαιων προσηλθον αυτω οι μαθηται κατ ιδιαν λεγοντες ειπον ημιν ποτε ταυτα εσται και τι το σημειον της σης παρουσιας και συντελειας του αιωνος [gnt]
What are
"these" "
things"? They have some idea but would like additional explanation.
17. Matthew 24:3 Sign of the Messiah
Matthew 24:3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world? [kjv]
καθημενου δε αυτου επι του ορους των ελαιων προσηλθον αυτω οι μαθηται κατ ιδιαν λεγοντες ειπον ημιν ποτε ταυτα εσται και τι το σημειον της σης παρουσιας και συντελειας του αιωνος [gnt]
"σημέαν" ≈ "mark, sign, omen, flag" (accusative)
"Μεσσίαν" ≈ "Messiah, anointed one" (accusative)
Jesus uses the Greek word for
"sign" as a play on words, using a Spoonerism, with
"Messiah". The disciples appear to not be aware of this correspondence.
18. Matthew 24:3 Coming
Matthew 24:3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world? [kjv]
καθημενου δε αυτου επι του ορους των ελαιων προσηλθον αυτω οι μαθηται κατ ιδιαν λεγοντες ειπον ημιν ποτε ταυτα εσται και τι το σημειον της σης παρουσιας και συντελειας του αιωνος [gnt]
The Greek word for
"frankness" or
"openness" is often translated as
"boldness". How would one define "
love"
"boldly" in Biblical terms?
The disciples ask:
... what is the sign of your coming. Since Jesus had said that the religious elite would not "
see" "
him" (Jesus) as he is until they recognized the oppressed at the bottom, the disciples would like to know when this will happen.
19. Matthew 24:3 You and a mouthful of moth
Matthew 24:3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world? [kjv]
καθημενου δε αυτου επι του ορους των ελαιων προσηλθον αυτω οι μαθηται κατ ιδιαν λεγοντες ειπον ημιν ποτε ταυτα εσται και τι το σημειον της σης παρουσιας και συντελειας του αιωνος [gnt]
The
ancient Greek word
"σῆς" ≈ "moth" is a
uncommon meaning while
"σης" ≈ "thy" is a
common meaning of the same word.
Could it be a
"moth" coming or a "
moth-ball" coming? Is it more likely that the
"moth" in the "
treasure" verse is that of
"you"?
20. Matthew 24:3 Strongs - moth
*G4674 *0 σός (sos) : from G4771; thine:--thine (own), thy (friend).
*G4597 *3 σής (sace) : apparently of Hebrew origin (5580); a moth:--moth.
*H5580 סָס (sawce) : from the same as H5483; a moth (from the agility of the fly):--moth.
The ancient Greek word
"σῆς" ≈ "moth" and "σης" ≈ "thy, yours" as in the following verse.
Matthew 24:3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world? [kjv]
καθημενου δε αυτου επι του ορους των ελαιων προσηλθον αυτω οι μαθηται κατ ιδιαν λεγοντες ειπον ημιν ποτε ταυτα εσται και τι το σημειον της σης παρουσιας και συντελειας του αιωνος [gnt]
The word
"σης" ≈ "thy, your" is
feminine singular to match "
presence".
Could it be a
"moth" coming or a "
moth-ball" coming? Is it more likely that the
"moth" in the "
treasure" verse is that of
"you"?
21. Strongs - moth
*G4597 *3 σής (sace) : apparently of Hebrew origin (5580); a moth:--moth.
 |
Words: σης=3
|
*H5580 סָס (sawce) : from the same as H5483; a moth (from the agility of the fly):--moth.
 |
Words: σης=3
|
22. Usage - moth
- *G4597 *3 σής (sace) : apparently of Hebrew origin (5580); a moth:--moth.
- σης *3
- Matthew 6:19 ... upon earth, where moth and rust doth corrupt, ...
- Matthew 6:20 ... heaven, where neither moth nor rust doth corrupt, ...
- Luke 12:33 ... thief approacheth, neither moth corrupteth.
23. Matthew 24:3 Ages
Matthew 24:3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world? [kjv]
καθημενου δε αυτου επι του ορους των ελαιων προσηλθον αυτω οι μαθηται κατ ιδιαν λεγοντες ειπον ημιν ποτε ταυτα εσται και τι το σημειον της σης παρουσιας και συντελειας του αιωνος [gnt]
The Greek word translated as
"world" is that of
"ages" as an indefinite period of time.
"ιωνα" ≈ "Jonah".
"αἰῶνᾰ" ≈ "lifetime, age, forever" (accusative) of "αἰών" ≈ "lifetime, age, forever".
Jesus uses
"Jonah", is in the
"sign" of
"Jonah", as a play on words with the "
ages".
24. Strongs - working together
*G4930 *6 συντέλεια (soon-tel'-i-ah) : from G4931; entire completion, i.e. consummation (of a dispensation):--end.
 |
Words: συντελεια=4 συντελειας=2
|
The ancient Greek word
"συντέλεια" ≈ "cooperative effort, partnership" and had several associated meanings.
"joint contribution" for the public burdens (e.g., tax load)
"compulsory provision" of recruits.
"union of communities".
"completed action" (grammar technical term)
Does any of this fit the religious establishment at the time of Jesus? In the
GNT (Greek New Testament), the meaning is that of
"end" as in the
"end" of the
"world".
25. Usage - working together
- *G4930 *6 συντέλεια (soon-tel'-i-ah) : from G4931; entire completion, i.e. consummation (of a dispensation):--end.
- συντελεια *4
- Matthew 13:39 ... the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers ...
- Matthew 13:40 ... so shall it be in the end of this world.
- Matthew 13:49 So shall it be at the end of the world: the angels shall come forth, ...
- Hebrews 9:26 ... now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to ...
- συντελειας *2
- Matthew 24:3 ... thy coming, and of the end of the world?
- Matthew 28:20 ... you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.
26. Matthew 24:3 Cooperative effort
Matthew 24:3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world? [kjv]
καθημενου δε αυτου επι του ορους των ελαιων προσηλθον αυτω οι μαθηται κατ ιδιαν λεγοντες ειπον ημιν ποτε ταυτα εσται και τι το σημειον της σης παρουσιας και συντελειας του αιωνος [gnt]
The ancient Greek word
"συντέλεια" ≈ "cooperative effort, partnership" and comes from two Greek words.
"συν" ≈ "together"
"τέλος" ≈ "end, purpose, complete".
Paraphrase:
... and the cooperative effort (of the religious elite with the oppressed faithful) into the ages.
This is vastly different than the
"end" of the
"world". The
TR (Textus Receptus) adds the Greek for "
of the" before
"end" which is not needed using the Greek word meaning.
27. Recap
The discourse in Matthew 23 leads to (mistranslated) statements about the religious elite not doing what God wanted and oppressing the followers with a yoke of compulsion.
The disciples (immediately) ask some public questions (mistranslated as innocuous statements) at the beginning of Matthew 24.
Some disciples then ask private questions (mistranslated).
Jesus then follows with an extended discourse. The apparent meaning of this extended discourse, called the Olivet Discourse, is that the cooperation that should happen will never happen into the ages until the final end of time (as we know it) when heaven and earth will pass by.
28. Recap
What the Greek says, in context, is not at all what translations say. The translations appear to shift the wrongdoing (evil oppression) from the religious elite in general to the Jews at the time of Jesus in particular. Any group getting religious (and perhaps secular) power at a later time could point at the Jews as having a "
house" that is "
desolate" and could avoid suspicion as to doing exactly what Jesus said should not be done be the religious elite.
Did any group have the
means,
motive and
opportunity to have these (and other) verses say something other than what it appears, in context, and using the original meanings of the Greek words, to have said?
The resulting English translations led, from the middle 1800's, to a date-setting and prophecy predicting movement based on the rapture, Israel, etc. Ideas on strict Biblical inerrancy date from this time. This appears to be misguided and based on questionable translations of the original Greek.
[leaven, moving mountains/definitions, etc.]
29. Cursed fig tree discourse paraphrase
21:18:
and in the morning, as Jesus returned to the city, the disciples decided (later) that he must have been hungry.
21:19:
And when Jesus saw one fig tree in the way, he said to the fig tree, "let no fruit grow on thee from now on". Immediately, the fig tree dried up.
21:20:
When the disciples saw it, they wondered, saying, "How quickly is the fig tree dried up".
21:21:
Jesus says, "Verily I say unto you" (connect this with the previous saying), If you believe and do not discern, you will not only do what has been done to this fig tree, but (in addition) if you say to this mountain/definition, be lifted up and cast [oblivion, forgetfulness] into the sea (of humanity,) it will come into being.
21:22:
and all these (not good) things (just mentioned), if you request (them) as a wish, believing, you shall take it.
[kp2: birds: weeds and wheat, lust, opinions]
[kp3: fish: mustard seed, tree, birds, oaths]
[kp4: pigs: woman, leaven]
30. Matthew 24:3
KJV: And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?
Greek: καθημενου δε αυτου επι του ορους των ελαιων προσηλθον αυτω οι μαθηται κατ ιδιαν λεγοντες ειπε ειπον ημιν ποτε ταυτα εσται και τι το σημειον της σης παρουσιας και της συντελειας του αιωνος
31. Book: Armageddon: What the Bible Really Says about the End
Title: Armageddon: What the Bible Really Says about the End
Author: Bart D. Ehrman
Publisher : Simon & Schuster
Publication date : March 21, 2023
Print length : 272 pages
ISBN-13 : 978-1982147990
This is an interesting book that has a lot of good information.
The author shows many fallacies in the reasoning of those who do not support his view.
The author conveniently omits parts of the reasoning that do not support his view.
As in many cases, the truth may be between the two extremes.
On the other hand, in Biblical terms, it may be true that, in many cases, both views (sometimes more than just two) are correct in some sense.
This content will point out some interesting parts of the book. These comments are based on reading (i.e., listening) to the book twice, marking interesting parts the second time through.
32. Millerism
Millerites were followers of
William Miller (1782-1849) in a movement called
Millerism. Miller was a Baptist lay preacher in northeast New York state. From his study of selected parts of English translations of the Bible, Miller predicted the Second Coming of Christ in the 1840's. Some followers of this movement became
Adventists such as the Seventh Day Adventists.
33. John Nelson Darby
John Nelson Darby (1800-1882) as Anglo-American Bible teacher and his theory of the
rapture from cherry-picked English translations of the Bible.
Called the father of modern sensationalism. Darby had ideas that led to ideas of
inerrancy and
infallibly of the
scriptures.
[Darby Bibles - German (1871), French (1859), English (1870) - translated from the Hebrew and Greek (as understood from the Latin)]
[Ehrman comments on the Darby, rapture, etc. (to be added)]
34. Cyrus Scofield
Cyrus Scofield (1843-1921) and his
Scofield Reference Bible (1909, 1917, etc.) with concordance, index, cross references, etc. (dispensations)
Prior to World War I, there was a cultural optimism as if the millennium of the Bible had already arrived.
Many ideas were cultivated as fulfilling prophecy. Part of this was a homeland for the return of Israel.
[Ehrman comments on the Scofield, rapture, etc. (to be added)]
35. Matthew 24:3 Olivet Discourse
Matthew 24:3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world? [kjv]
καθημενου δε αυτου επι του ορους των ελαιων προσηλθον αυτω οι μαθηται κατ ιδιαν λεγοντες ειπον ημιν ποτε ταυτα εσται και τι το σημειον της σης παρουσιας και συντελειας του αιωνος [gnt]
Paraphrase:
... Tell us, when will what you have just been saying be. That is, when will the religious establishment acknowledge what you have been saying about oppressing the believers at the bottom? When shall this cooperative effort take place into the ages?
Jesus then follows with an extended discourse. The apparent meaning of this extended discourse, called the Olivet Discourse, is that the cooperation that should happen will
never happen into the ages until the final end of time (as we know it) when heaven and earth will pass by. It will happen when pigs fly!
36. Matthew 24:4-5 False Christs and all of it
Matthew 24:4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you. [kjv]
24:5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many. [kjv]
Many appears to mean
"many" as in "
not just a few". Can you identify some candidates through out history that might fit the description? Mark is similar to Matthew. Luke has some differences.
Will they actually say that they are
"Christ"? One might "
fact check" that they are not actually
"Christ".
Or might they, as teachers, preachers, etc., be their own version of
"Christ", using selected parts of scripture, etc., and become as a "
god", in their deception of others and themselves?
[False teachers, functional equivalence]
37. Matthew 24:6-7 Wars and rumors of wars
Matthew 24:6 And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet. [kjv]
μελλησετε δε ακουειν πολεμους και ακοας πολεμων ορατε μη θροεισθε δει γαρ γενεσθαι αλλ ουπω εστιν το τελος [gnt]
Many have heard of the "
wars and rumors of wars" verse that is part of the Olivet Discourse by Jesus in Matthew 24. The
KJV (King James Version) infers and/or adds words that are not in the Greek.
38. End of page