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Matthew 24:3 All of it in the Olivet Discourse
by RS  admin@creationpie.org : 1024 x 640


1. Matthew 24:3 All of it in the Olivet Discourse
This content is being developed.

2. Matthew 23:38-39 End of chapter
Verse routeMatthew 23:38 Behold, your house is left unto you desolate. [kjv]
Verse routeιδου αφιεται υμιν ο οικος υμων [gnt]
Verse route23:39 For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord. [kjv]
Verse routeλεγω γαρ υμιν ου μη με ιδητε απ αρτι εως αν ειπητε ευλογημενος ο ερχομενος εν ονοματι κυριου [gnt]

This saying appears to have an important part in future end times prophecy. This ends chapter 23 and leads to the Olivet Discourse where Jesus, at the disciples request, talks about the "End Times" (whatever that means)..

Information sign More: Matthew 23:37-39 Seeing the big house as it is

3. Questions
There are some obvious questions from the discourse in Matthew 23 that appear to be unanswered. Do we ever see these questions being asked? If so, does Jesus ever provide answers? Stay tuned. That is, you need to keep your listening devices in tune to hear what is being said.

These ideas of the rapture lead to the idea of the acronym BIBLE (Basic Instructions Before Leaving Earth).

Information sign More: Acronyms: modern and ancient
Information sign More: Matthew 23:37-39 Seeing the big house as it is

4. Matthew 24:1-2 Seeing the cites at the house of the temple
In Matthew 23:1-2, the disciples show Jesus the sites of the temple. Perhaps they are citing the house of the temple. Let us check it out.

Verse routeMatthew 24:1 And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple. [kjv]
Verse route24:2 And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down. [kjv]

Isn't that nice? The disciples want to "show" Jesus the "buildings" of the "temple". Had he ever seen them before? Had the disciples ever seen them before. Why does Jesus need to point out what they are already "seeing"?

What follows is called the "Olivet Discourse" , which spans Matthew chapters 24 and 25, where Jesus tells about "all of it" (play on words) as in "Ol-i-vet".

Information sign More: Matthew 24:1-2 Seeing the cites at the house of the temple

5. Matthew 24:1-2 Paraphrase
Verse routeMatthew 24:1 And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple. [kjv]
Verse route24:2 And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down. [kjv]

Paraphrase: 24:1. And Jesus went out from the temple and his disciples came. Show (demonstrate, example) us (with respect to) it (the house. people worshiping) the edification/building (purpose) of the temple! 24:2 So Jesus answered and said to them. Do not look at these at all. Amen, I say to you (connect the dots). There will not be forgiven in this way (as done here) one stone (piece of sand) on/against stone (piece of sand) that will not be dissolved (as a residence). Perhaps, using to one cookie rule, none of these pieces of sand will be thrown down forever.

This partially answers the questions of the disciples. Some will come back with the same questions for a more private answer. They do not want to look stupid in front of the other disciples.

Information sign More: Matthew 5:18 The true reality of jots and tittles
Information sign More: One cookie rule: good to the last drop
Information sign More: Matthew 24:1-2 Seeing the cites at the house of the temple

6. Matthew 5:18 Jots and tittles
Verse routeMatthew 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. [kjv]
Verse routeαμην γαρ λεγω υμιν εως αν παρελθη ο ουρανος και η γη ιωτα εν η μια κεραια ου μη παρελθη απο του νομου εως αν παντα γενηται [gnt]

Bird
Paraphrase: It is so that until heaven and earth pass by, not one jot (spots, blemishes, empty opinion) nor one tittle (horns, invalid logic, extra rules) will pass by from man's viewpoint (but all will pass by from God's viewpoint) until all (the new heaven and new earth) come into being.

[opinion not put under a measure but held up for all in the birdhouse]

Information sign More: Matthew 5:4 B2 Good grief: the consolation prize of comfort
Information sign More: Matthew 13:24-30,36-43 KP2 Parable of the wheat and tares
Information sign More: Revelation 2:8-11 RC2 Smyrna
Information sign More: Matthew 5:18 The true reality of jots and tittles

7. Matthew 5:18 Jots and tittles
Verse routeMatthew 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. [kjv]
Verse routeαμην γαρ λεγω υμιν εως αν παρελθη ο ουρανος και η γη ιωτα εν η μια κεραια ου μη παρελθη απο του νομου εως αν παντα γενηται [gnt]

Man's added laws
Will the religious establishment be upset if you remove any "jots" (blemishes, personal opinions, etc.) or "tittles" (extra rules, invalid logic, etc.) that are used to oppress the faithful and support their (false) house (nest and belly)?
How might the religious establishment react? What might they do? Jesus addresses this in the next two verses (and thereafter).

Information sign More: Matthew 5:18 The true reality of jots and tittles

8. Matthew 24:3 All of it in the Olivet Discourse
In the "Olivet Discourse" , which spans Matthew chapters 24 and 25, Jesus tells about "all of it" (play on words) as in "Ol-i-vet".
Verse routeMatthew 24:3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world? [kjv]
Verse routeκαθημενου δε αυτου επι του ορους των ελαιων προσηλθον αυτω οι μαθηται κατ ιδιαν λεγοντες ειπον ημιν ποτε ταυτα εσται και τι το σημειον της σης παρουσιας και συντελειας του αιωνος [gnt]

This verse, from the middle of the 1800's, has become the foundation of theology, books, etc., on the "End Times". Beliefs, sometimes fanatical, in the inerrancy of the Bible, became solidified from these beliefs.

Information sign More: Chosen falsehoods of inerrancy and infallibility

9. Strongs - privately
*G2398 *113 ἴδιος (id'-ee-os) : of uncertain affinity; pertaining to self, i.e. one's own; by implication, private or separate:--X his acquaintance, when they were alone, apart, aside, due, his (own, proper, several), home, (her, our, thine, your) own (business), private(-ly), proper, severally, their (own).
Word usage per chapter Words: ιδια=22 ιδιαις=2 ιδιαν=24 ιδιας=6 ιδιοι ιδιοις=10 ιδιον=18 ιδιος ιδιου=11 ιδιους=5 ιδιω=7 ιδιων=6


10. Matthew 24:3 Privately
Verse routeMatthew 24:3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world? [kjv]
Verse routeκαθημενου δε αυτου επι του ορους των ελαιων προσηλθον αυτω οι μαθηται κατ ιδιαν λεγοντες ειπον ημιν ποτε ταυτα εσται και τι το σημειον της σης παρουσιας και συντελειας του αιωνος [gnt]

In ancient times, and sometimes today, teachers would "sit" to "teach". This appears to have been a "private" briefing.

11. Mark 13:3
Verse routeMark 13:3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives over against the temple, Peter and James and John and Andrew asked him privately, [kjv]
Verse routeκαι καθημενου αυτου εις το ορος των ελαιων κατεναντι του ιερου επηρωτα αυτον κατ ιδιαν πετρος και ιακωβος και ιωαννης και ανδρεας [gnt]

The briefing, as remembered by Peter and related to Mark, is a "private" briefing.

12. Mark 13:3
   Mark 13:3 
 All 
KJV: And as he sat upon the mount of Olives over against the temple, Peter and James and John and Andrew asked him privately,
Greek: και καθημενου αυτου εις το ορος των ελαιων κατεναντι του ιερου επηρωτων επηρωτα αυτον κατ ιδιαν πετρος και ιακωβος και ιωαννης και ανδρεας

13. Luke 21:6-7 Public briefing
Verse routeLuke 21:6 As for these things which ye behold, the days will come, in the which there shall not be left one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down. [kjv]
Verse route21:7 And they asked him, saying, Master, but when shall these things be? and what sign will there be when these things shall come to pass? [kjv]

From the context in Luke, based on what people remembered and told Luke some twenty years later, there is no mention of this being a "private" briefing.

Be careful not to confuse the private discourse about the end times in Matthew and Mark with the public discourse in Luke at the temple. They are much the same, but with some important differences.

Future topic Details are left as a future topic.


14. Luke 21:6
   Luke 21:6 
 All 
KJV: As for these things which ye behold, the days will come, in the which there shall not be left one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.
Greek: ταυτα α θεωρειτε ελευσονται ημεραι εν αις ουκ αφεθησεται λιθος επι λιθω ωδε ος ου καταλυθησεται

15. Luke 21:7
   Luke 21:7 
 All 
KJV: And they asked him, saying, Master, but when shall these things be? and what sign will there be when these things shall come to pass?
Greek: επηρωτησαν δε αυτον λεγοντες διδασκαλε ποτε ουν ταυτα εσται και τι το σημειον οταν μελλη ταυτα γινεσθαι

16. Matthew 24:3 These things
Verse routeMatthew 24:3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world? [kjv]
Verse routeκαθημενου δε αυτου επι του ορους των ελαιων προσηλθον αυτω οι μαθηται κατ ιδιαν λεγοντες ειπον ημιν ποτε ταυτα εσται και τι το σημειον της σης παρουσιας και συντελειας του αιωνος [gnt]

What are "these" "things"? They have some idea but would like additional explanation.

17. Matthew 24:3 Sign of the Messiah
Verse routeMatthew 24:3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world? [kjv]
Verse routeκαθημενου δε αυτου επι του ορους των ελαιων προσηλθον αυτω οι μαθηται κατ ιδιαν λεγοντες ειπον ημιν ποτε ταυτα εσται και τι το σημειον της σης παρουσιας και συντελειας του αιωνος [gnt]

Sign and Messiah

Jesus uses the Greek word for "sign" as a play on words, using a Spoonerism, with "Messiah". The disciples appear to not be aware of this correspondence.

Information sign More: Punishment by Spoonerisms: switched consonants

18. Matthew 24:3 Coming
Verse routeMatthew 24:3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world? [kjv]
Verse routeκαθημενου δε αυτου επι του ορους των ελαιων προσηλθον αυτω οι μαθηται κατ ιδιαν λεγοντες ειπον ημιν ποτε ταυτα εσται και τι το σημειον της σης παρουσιας και συντελειας του αιωνος [gnt]

Arrival, advent and frankness, openness
The Greek word for "frankness" or "openness" is often translated as "boldness". How would one define "love" "boldly" in Biblical terms?
The disciples ask: ... what is the sign of your coming. Since Jesus had said that the religious elite would not "see" "him" (Jesus) as he is until they recognized the oppressed at the bottom, the disciples would like to know when this will happen.

19. Matthew 24:3 You and a mouthful of moth
Verse routeMatthew 24:3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world? [kjv]
Verse routeκαθημενου δε αυτου επι του ορους των ελαιων προσηλθον αυτω οι μαθηται κατ ιδιαν λεγοντες ειπον ημιν ποτε ταυτα εσται και τι το σημειον της σης παρουσιας και συντελειας του αιωνος [gnt]

The ancient Greek word "σῆς""moth" is a uncommon meaning while "σης""thy" is a common meaning of the same word.

Could it be a "moth" coming or a "moth-ball" coming? Is it more likely that the "moth" in the "treasure" verse is that of "you"?

20. Matthew 24:3 Strongs - moth
*G4674 *0 σός (sos) : from G4771; thine:--thine (own), thy (friend).
*G4597 *3 σής (sace) : apparently of Hebrew origin (5580); a moth:--moth.
*H5580 סָס (sawce) : from the same as H5483; a moth (from the agility of the fly):--moth.
The ancient Greek word "σῆς""moth" and "σης""thy, yours" as in the following verse.
Verse routeMatthew 24:3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world? [kjv]
Verse routeκαθημενου δε αυτου επι του ορους των ελαιων προσηλθον αυτω οι μαθηται κατ ιδιαν λεγοντες ειπον ημιν ποτε ταυτα εσται και τι το σημειον της σης παρουσιας και συντελειας του αιωνος [gnt]

The word "σης""thy, your" is feminine singular to match "presence".
Could it be a "moth" coming or a "moth-ball" coming? Is it more likely that the "moth" in the "treasure" verse is that of "you"?

21. Strongs - moth
*G4597 *3 σής (sace) : apparently of Hebrew origin (5580); a moth:--moth.
Word usage per chapter Words: σης=3

*H5580 סָס (sawce) : from the same as H5483; a moth (from the agility of the fly):--moth.
Word usage per chapter Words: σης=3

22. Usage - moth
  • *G4597 *3 σής (sace) : apparently of Hebrew origin (5580); a moth:--moth.
  •  Usage 
     All 
    • σης *3
      •   Matthew 6:19 ... upon earth, where moth and rust doth corrupt, ...
      •   Matthew 6:20 ... heaven, where neither moth nor rust doth corrupt, ...
      •   Luke 12:33 ... thief approacheth, neither moth corrupteth.

23. Matthew 24:3 Ages
Verse routeMatthew 24:3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world? [kjv]
Verse routeκαθημενου δε αυτου επι του ορους των ελαιων προσηλθον αυτω οι μαθηται κατ ιδιαν λεγοντες ειπον ημιν ποτε ταυτα εσται και τι το σημειον της σης παρουσιας και συντελειας του αιωνος [gnt]

The Greek word translated as "world" is that of "ages" as an indefinite period of time.

Jonah and age/forever

Jesus uses "Jonah", is in the "sign" of "Jonah", as a play on words with the "ages".

Information sign More: Matthew 12:38-40 Sign sign everywhere a sign

24. Strongs - working together
*G4930 *6 συντέλεια (soon-tel'-i-ah) : from G4931; entire completion, i.e. consummation (of a dispensation):--end.
Word usage per chapter Words: συντελεια=4 συντελειας=2

The ancient Greek word "συντέλεια""cooperative effort, partnership" and had several associated meanings. Does any of this fit the religious establishment at the time of Jesus? In the GNT (Greek New Testament), the meaning is that of "end" as in the "end" of the "world".

Information sign More: Word: Cooperative effort

25. Usage - working together
  • *G4930 *6 συντέλεια (soon-tel'-i-ah) : from G4931; entire completion, i.e. consummation (of a dispensation):--end.
  •  Usage 
     All 
    • συντελεια *4
      •   Matthew 13:39 ... the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers ...
      •   Matthew 13:40 ... so shall it be in the end of this world.
      •   Matthew 13:49 So shall it be at the end of the world: the angels shall come forth, ...
      •   Hebrews 9:26 ... now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to ...
    • συντελειας *2
      •   Matthew 24:3 ... thy coming, and of the end of the world?
      •   Matthew 28:20 ... you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.


Information sign More: Word: Cooperative effort

26. Matthew 24:3 Cooperative effort
Verse routeMatthew 24:3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world? [kjv]
Verse routeκαθημενου δε αυτου επι του ορους των ελαιων προσηλθον αυτω οι μαθηται κατ ιδιαν λεγοντες ειπον ημιν ποτε ταυτα εσται και τι το σημειον της σης παρουσιας και συντελειας του αιωνος [gnt]

The ancient Greek word "συντέλεια""cooperative effort, partnership" and comes from two Greek words. Paraphrase: ... and the cooperative effort (of the religious elite with the oppressed faithful) into the ages.

This is vastly different than the "end" of the "world". The TR (Textus Receptus) adds the Greek for "of the" before "end" which is not needed using the Greek word meaning.

27. Recap
The discourse in Matthew 23 leads to (mistranslated) statements about the religious elite not doing what God wanted and oppressing the followers with a yoke of compulsion.

The disciples (immediately) ask some public questions (mistranslated as innocuous statements) at the beginning of Matthew 24.

Some disciples then ask private questions (mistranslated).

Jesus then follows with an extended discourse. The apparent meaning of this extended discourse, called the Olivet Discourse, is that the cooperation that should happen will never happen into the ages until the final end of time (as we know it) when heaven and earth will pass by.

28. Recap
What the Greek says, in context, is not at all what translations say. The translations appear to shift the wrongdoing (evil oppression) from the religious elite in general to the Jews at the time of Jesus in particular. Any group getting religious (and perhaps secular) power at a later time could point at the Jews as having a "house" that is "desolate" and could avoid suspicion as to doing exactly what Jesus said should not be done be the religious elite.

Did any group have the means, motive and opportunity to have these (and other) verses say something other than what it appears, in context, and using the original meanings of the Greek words, to have said?

The resulting English translations led, from the middle 1800's, to a date-setting and prophecy predicting movement based on the rapture, Israel, etc. Ideas on strict Biblical inerrancy date from this time. This appears to be misguided and based on questionable translations of the original Greek.

[leaven, moving mountains/definitions, etc.]

29. Cursed fig tree discourse paraphrase
21:18: and in the morning, as Jesus returned to the city, the disciples decided (later) that he must have been hungry.
21:19: And when Jesus saw one fig tree in the way, he said to the fig tree, "let no fruit grow on thee from now on". Immediately, the fig tree dried up.
21:20: When the disciples saw it, they wondered, saying, "How quickly is the fig tree dried up".
21:21: Jesus says, "Verily I say unto you" (connect this with the previous saying), If you believe and do not discern, you will not only do what has been done to this fig tree, but (in addition) if you say to this mountain/definition, be lifted up and cast [oblivion, forgetfulness] into the sea (of humanity,) it will come into being.
21:22: and all these (not good) things (just mentioned), if you request (them) as a wish, believing, you shall take it.

[kp2: birds: weeds and wheat, lust, opinions]
[kp3: fish: mustard seed, tree, birds, oaths]
[kp4: pigs: woman, leaven]

Information sign More: Matthew 21:17-23 Connecting the fig tree curse with moving this mountain

30. Matthew 24:3
   Matthew 24:3 
 All 
KJV: And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?
Greek: καθημενου δε αυτου επι του ορους των ελαιων προσηλθον αυτω οι μαθηται κατ ιδιαν λεγοντες ειπε ειπον ημιν ποτε ταυτα εσται και τι το σημειον της σης παρουσιας και της συντελειας του αιωνος

31. Book: Armageddon: What the Bible Really Says about the End
Book: Armageddon: What the Bible Really Says about the End

This is an interesting book that has a lot of good information. This content will point out some interesting parts of the book. These comments are based on reading (i.e., listening) to the book twice, marking interesting parts the second time through.

Information sign More: Book: Armageddon: What the Bible Really Says about the End

32. Millerism
Millerites were followers of William Miller (1782-1849) in a movement called Millerism. Miller was a Baptist lay preacher in northeast New York state. From his study of selected parts of English translations of the Bible, Miller predicted the Second Coming of Christ in the 1840's. Some followers of this movement became Adventists such as the Seventh Day Adventists.


Information sign More: Chosen falsehoods of inerrancy and infallibility

33. John Nelson Darby
John Nelson Darby (1800-1882) as Anglo-American Bible teacher and his theory of the rapture from cherry-picked English translations of the Bible.

Called the father of modern sensationalism. Darby had ideas that led to ideas of inerrancy and infallibly of the scriptures.
[Darby Bibles - German (1871), French (1859), English (1870) - translated from the Hebrew and Greek (as understood from the Latin)]
[Ehrman comments on the Darby, rapture, etc. (to be added)]

Information sign More: Chosen falsehoods of inerrancy and infallibility

34. Cyrus Scofield
Cyrus Scofield (1843-1921) and his Scofield Reference Bible (1909, 1917, etc.) with concordance, index, cross references, etc. (dispensations)

Prior to World War I, there was a cultural optimism as if the millennium of the Bible had already arrived.
Many ideas were cultivated as fulfilling prophecy. Part of this was a homeland for the return of Israel.

[Ehrman comments on the Scofield, rapture, etc. (to be added)]

Information sign More: Chosen falsehoods of inerrancy and infallibility

35. Matthew 24:3 Olivet Discourse
Verse routeMatthew 24:3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world? [kjv]
Verse routeκαθημενου δε αυτου επι του ορους των ελαιων προσηλθον αυτω οι μαθηται κατ ιδιαν λεγοντες ειπον ημιν ποτε ταυτα εσται και τι το σημειον της σης παρουσιας και συντελειας του αιωνος [gnt]

Paraphrase: ... Tell us, when will what you have just been saying be. That is, when will the religious establishment acknowledge what you have been saying about oppressing the believers at the bottom? When shall this cooperative effort take place into the ages?

Jesus then follows with an extended discourse. The apparent meaning of this extended discourse, called the Olivet Discourse, is that the cooperation that should happen will never happen into the ages until the final end of time (as we know it) when heaven and earth will pass by. It will happen when pigs fly!

36. Matthew 24:4-5 False Christs and all of it
Verse routeMatthew 24:4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you. [kjv]
Verse route24:5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many. [kjv]

Many appears to mean "many" as in "not just a few". Can you identify some candidates through out history that might fit the description? Mark is similar to Matthew. Luke has some differences.

Will they actually say that they are "Christ"? One might "fact check" that they are not actually "Christ".
Or might they, as teachers, preachers, etc., be their own version of "Christ", using selected parts of scripture, etc., and become as a "god", in their deception of others and themselves?

[False teachers, functional equivalence]

Information sign More: Imitator or impersonator of Christ
Information sign More: John 1:1-5 Four causes in a design and implementation model
Information sign More: Matthew 24:4-5 False Christs and all of it

37. Matthew 24:6-7 Wars and rumors of wars
Verse routeMatthew 24:6 And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet. [kjv]
Verse routeμελλησετε δε ακουειν πολεμους και ακοας πολεμων ορατε μη θροεισθε δει γαρ γενεσθαι αλλ ουπω εστιν το τελος [gnt]

Many have heard of the "wars and rumors of wars" verse that is part of the Olivet Discourse by Jesus in Matthew 24. The KJV (King James Version) infers and/or adds words that are not in the Greek.

Information sign More: Matthew 24:6-7 Wars and rumors of wars

38. End of page

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