Lower than the angels

Psalms 8:4 What is man, that thou art mindful of him? and the son of man, that thou visitest him? [kjv]

τι εστιν ανθρωπος οτι μιμνησκη αυτου η υιος ανθρωπου οτι επισκεπτη αυτον [lxx]

… homo … [v]

8:5 For thou hast made him a little lower than the angels, and hast crowned him with glory and honour. [kjv]

ηλαττωσας αυτον βραχυ τι παρ αγγελους δοξη και τιμη εστεφανωσας αυτον [lxx]

… minus … Deo … [v]

Who exactly was created "lower than the angels"?

After hearing that these verses refer to normal people, two weeks in a row (in a sermon in 2021), it appeared best to check it out in more detail.

The closest references are to Psalms 8:5 and Hebrews 2:7 and 2:9.

Psalms may have veiled references to the Messiah while Hebrews may try to reveal those references.

Psalms 8:1 O LORD our Lord, how excellent is thy name in all the earth! who hast set thy glory above the heavens. [kjv]

εις το τελος υπερ των ληνων ψαλμος τω δαυιδ κυριε ο κυριος ημων ως θαυμαστον το ονομα σου εν παση τη γη οτι επηρθη η μεγαλοπρεπεια σου υπερανω των ουρανων [lxx]

Let us look at Psalms 8 first and then at Hebrews 2.

Psalms 8:1

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KJV: O LORD our Lord, how excellent is thy name in all the earth! who hast set thy glory above the heavens.

Hebrew: למנצח על הגתית מזמור לדוד יהוה אדנינו מה אדיר שמך בכל הארץ אשר תנה הודך על השמים׃

Greek: εις το τελος υπερ των ληνων ψαλμος τω δαυιδ κυριε ο κυριος ημων ως θαυμαστον το ονομα σου εν παση τη γη οτι επηρθη η μεγαλοπρεπεια σου υπερανω των ουρανων

Latin: victori pro torcularibus canticum David Domine Dominator noster quam grande est nomen tuum in universa terra qui posuisti gloriam tuam super caelos

Psalms 8:2 Out of the mouth of babes and sucklings hast thou ordained strength because of thine enemies, that thou mightest still the enemy and the avenger. [kjv]

8:3 When I consider thy heavens, the work of thy fingers, the moon and the stars, which thou hast ordained; [kjv]

Psalms 8:2

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KJV: Out of the mouth of babes and sucklings hast thou ordained strength because of thine enemies, that thou mightest still the enemy and the avenger.

Hebrew: מפי עוללים וינקים יסדת עז למען צורריך להשבית אויב ומתנקם׃

Greek: εκ στοματος νηπιων και θηλαζοντων κατηρτισω αινον ενεκα των εχθρων σου του καταλυσαι εχθρον και εκδικητην

Psalms 8:3

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KJV: When I consider thy heavens, the work of thy fingers, the moon and the stars, which thou hast ordained;

Hebrew: כי אראה שמיך מעשי אצבעתיך ירח וכוכבים אשר כוננתה׃

Greek: οτι οψομαι τους ουρανους εργα των δακτυλων σου σεληνην και αστερας α συ εθεμελιωσας

The previous verses are the setup for what follows.

Psalms 8:4 What is man, that thou art mindful of him? and the son of man, that thou visitest him? [kjv]

τι εστιν ανθρωπος οτι μιμνησκη αυτου η υιος ανθρωπου οτι επισκεπτη αυτον [lxx]

Here we have man, in general, and the son of man, in particular.

Is the "son of man" Adam (the first Adam)?

The Hebrew word "אדם" (a-dam) ≈ "man, Adam".

Psalms 8:4

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KJV: What is man, that thou art mindful of him? and the son of man, that thou visitest him?

Hebrew: מה אנוש כי תזכרנו ובן אדם כי תפקדנו׃

Greek: τι εστιν ανθρωπος οτι μιμνησκη αυτου η υιος ανθρωπου οτι επισκεπτη αυτον

Latin: quid est homo quoniam recordaris eius vel filius hominis quoniam visitas eum

Psalms 8:5 For thou hast made him a little lower than the angels, and hast crowned him with glory and honour. [kjv]

ηλαττωσας αυτον βραχυ τι παρ αγγελους δοξη και τιμη εστεφανωσας αυτον [lxx]

… minus … Deo … [v]

This verse is the source of some controversy, both here and in Hebrews. Who is the "him"? Is it "man"? Is it "mankind"? Is it "Jesus" the "Messiah" in foretold prophecy?

The Hebrew uses the word God while the LXX (Septuagint) was translated as "angels".

The Hebrew word "מאלהים" (me-e-lo-him) ≈ "than God".
The modern Greek word "αγγελούς" (agh-y-LUS) ≈ "than angels".

This verse is repeated/used in Hebrews 2 which caused later controversy.

Psalms 8:5

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KJV: For thou hast made him a little lower than the angels, and hast crowned him with glory and honour.

Hebrew: ותחסרהו מעט מאלהים וכבוד והדר תעטרהו׃

Greek: ηλαττωσας αυτον βραχυ τι παρ αγγελους δοξη και τιμη εστεφανωσας αυτον

Latin: minues eum paulo minus a Deo gloria et decore coronabis eum

Psalms 8:6 Thou madest him to have dominion over the works of thy hands; thou hast put all things under his feet: [kjv]

και κατεστησας αυτον επι τα εργα των χειρων σου παντα υπεταξας υποκατω των ποδων αυτου [lxx]

Psalms 8:6

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KJV: Thou madest him to have dominion over the works of thy hands; thou hast put all things under his feet:

Hebrew: תמשילהו במעשי ידיך כל שתה תחת רגליו׃

Greek: και κατεστησας αυτον επι τα εργα των χειρων σου παντα υπεταξας υποκατω των ποδων αυτου

Is the above verse in reference to men, in general, or the son of man, or to both (or neither, to cover what appear to be all possibilities)?

Is the first part of the verse to men, in general, and the second part to the son of man, in particular?

Genesis 1:27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them. [kjv]

και εποιησεν ο θεος τον ανθρωπον κατ εικονα θεου εποιησεν αυτον αρσεν και θηλυ εποιησεν αυτους [lxx]

In the above (and following) verses in Psalms 8, there appear to be references to Genesis 1:1:27-28.

Did God create a "man"?
Did God create "mankind"?
Did God create "humankind"? (As used in a sermon by a Pastor)

The Hebrew word "אדמ" (a-dam) ≈ "man, Adam".

The modern Greek word "άνθρωπους" (AN-thro-pus) ≈ "man" (singular) and from which we get the English word "anthropology" (study of man). The plural form could refer to mankind or humankind.

Genesis 1:27

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KJV: So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

Hebrew: ויברא אלהים את האדם בצלמו בצלם אלהים ברא אתו זכר ונקבה ברא אתם׃

Greek: και εποιησεν ο θεος τον ανθρωπον κατ εικονα θεου εποιησεν αυτον αρσεν και θηλυ εποιησεν αυτους

Latin: et creavit Deus hominem ad imaginem suam ad imaginem Dei creavit illum masculum et feminam creavit eos

The modern Greek word "αρσέν" (ar-SEHN) ≈ "male".
The Latin word "masculum" ≈ "masculine" and from which we get the English words "male", "masculine", etc.
The modern Greek word "θήλυ" (THEE-lee) ≈ "female".
The Latin word "feminam" ≈ "female" and from which we get the English words "female", "feminine", etc.

Matthew 19:4 And he answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female, [kjv]

ο δε αποκριθεις ειπεν ουκ ανεγνωτε οτι ο κτισας απ αρχης αρσεν και θηλυ εποιησεν αυτους [gnt]

The genders of "male" and "female" appear to be digital "yes" or "no" values with no in-between values.

Jesus responds to the Pharisees in Matthew 19:4.

Matthew 19:4

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KJV: And he answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female,

Greek: ο δε αποκριθεις ειπεν αυτοις ουκ ανεγνωτε οτι ο ποιησας κτισας απ αρχης αρσεν και θηλυ εποιησεν αυτους

Latin: qui respondens ait eis non legistis quia qui fecit ab initio masculum et feminam fecit eos

Genesis 1:28 And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth. [kjv]

και ηυλογησεν αυτους ο θεος λεγων αυξανεσθε και πληθυνεσθε και πληρωσατε την γην και κατακυριευσατε αυτης και αρχετε των ιχθυων της θαλασσης και των πετεινων του ουρανου και παντων των κτηνων και πασης της γης και παντων των ερπετων των ερποντων επι της γης [lxx]

Genesis 1:28

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KJV: And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.

Hebrew: ויברך אתם אלהים ויאמר להם אלהים פרו ורבו ומלאו את הארץ וכבשה ורדו בדגת הים ובעוף השמים ובכל חיה הרמשת על הארץ׃

Greek: και ηυλογησεν αυτους ο θεος λεγων αυξανεσθε και πληθυνεσθε και πληρωσατε την γην και κατακυριευσατε αυτης και αρχετε των ιχθυων της θαλασσης και των πετεινων του ουρανου και παντων των κτηνων και πασης της γης και παντων των ερπετων των ερποντων επι της γης

Latin: benedixitque illis Deus et ait crescite et multiplicamini et replete terram et subicite eam et dominamini piscibus maris et volatilibus caeli et universis animantibus quae moventur super terram

Note that man is to have dominion over the earth and all creation, but nowhere does it say that man is to have dominion over other men.

The KJV (King James Version) has "replenish" from the Latin word "replete" ≈ "fill". The earth is not being "re-filled" as in being done "again".

The modern Greek word "πληρώσατε" (plee-RO-sa-teh) ≈ "fill".

Romans 1:23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things. [kjv]

και ηλλαξαν την δοξαν του αφθαρτου θεου εν ομοιωματι εικονος φθαρτου ανθρωπου και πετεινων και τετραποδων και ερπετων [gnt]

The ancient Greek word "ἑρπετόν" ≈ "any animal that walks on four legs, creeping animal, reptile, snake" and is related to the Latin word "reptilis" ≈ "creeping" from which we get the English word "reptile". This Greek word is also related to the Latin word "serpens" ≈ "serpent, snake".

This Greek word could be interpreted as "creeping things" or "serpents" as is done in the GNT (Greek New Testament). The modern Greek word "ερπετών" (ehr-peh-TON) ≈ "reptiles"

Romans 1:23

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KJV: And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.

Greek: και ηλλαξαν την δοξαν του αφθαρτου θεου εν ομοιωματι εικονος φθαρτου ανθρωπου και πετεινων και τετραποδων και ερπετων

Latin: et mutaverunt gloriam incorruptibilis Dei in similitudinem imaginis corruptibilis hominis et volucrum et quadrupedum et serpentium

Tyndale: When they couted them selves wyse they became foles and turned the glory of the immortall god vnto the similitude of the ymage of mortall man and of byrdes and foure foted beastes and of serpentes.

Spanish: y cambiaron la gloria del Dios incorruptible, en semejanza de imagen de hombre corruptible, y de aves, y de cuadrúpedos, y de reptiles.

James 3:7 For every kind of beasts, and of birds, and of serpents, and of things in the sea, is tamed, and hath been tamed of mankind: [kjv]

James 3:7

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KJV: For every kind of beasts, and of birds, and of serpents, and of things in the sea, is tamed, and hath been tamed of mankind:

Greek: πασα γαρ φυσις θηριων τε και πετεινων ερπετων τε και εναλιων δαμαζεται και δεδαμασται τη φυσει τη ανθρωπινη

Latin: omnis enim natura bestiarum et volucrum et serpentium etiam ceterorum domantur et domita sunt a natura humana

Wycliffe: And al the kynde of beestis, and of foulis, and of serpentis, and of othere is chastisid, and tho ben maad tame of mannus kinde; but no man mai chastise the tunge,

Luther: Denn alle Natur der Tiere und der Vögel und der Schlangen und der Meerwunder werden gezähmet und sind gezähmet von der menschlichen Natur;

Russian: Ибо всякое естество зверей и птиц, пресмыкающихся и морских животных укрощается и укрощено естеством человеческим,

The Latin word "bestiarum" ≈ "beasts" and from which we get the English word "beast". Other languages have interesting words for "beast".

The German word "Tier" ≈ "animal, beast" and is related to the English word "deer" which originally meant an "animal".
The Russian word "зверь" (tzwer) ≈ "beast" and is related to the English word "bear" (the animal).
The modern Greek word "θηρίον" (thee-REE-on) ≈ "animal, beast" and is cognate with the Russian word зверь and the Latin word "ferus" ≈ "wild, savage" and is related to the English words "fierce", "ferocious", and "feral".

Psalms 8:7 All sheep and oxen, yea, and the beasts of the field; [kjv]

προβατα και βοας πασας ετι δε και τα κτηνη του πεδιου [lxx]

Back to Psalms. Remember, the previous verse could have ended with "creeping things" such as "reptiles". The next verse either further enumerates "beasts" or continues with more categories in addition to the previous categories.

Psalms 8:7

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KJV: All sheep and oxen, yea, and the beasts of the field;

Hebrew: צנה ואלפים כלם וגם בהמות שדי׃

Greek: προβατα και βοας πασας ετι δε και τα κτηνη του πεδιου

Psalms 8:8 The fowl of the air, and the fish of the sea, and whatsoever passeth through the paths of the seas. [kjv]

τα πετεινα του ουρανου και τους ιχθυας της θαλασσης τα διαπορευομενα τριβους θαλασσων [lxx]

The rest of the verses enumerate parts of that creation that are under the above with a final wrap-up.

Psalms 8:8

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KJV: The fowl of the air, and the fish of the sea, and whatsoever passeth through the paths of the seas.

Hebrew: צפור שמים ודגי הים עבר ארחות ימים׃

Greek: τα πετεινα του ουρανου και τους ιχθυας της θαλασσης τα διαπορευομενα τριβους θαλασσων

Latin: aves caeli et pisces maris qui pertranseunt semitas ponti

Psalms 119:105 NUN. Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path. [kjv]

ιδ νουν λυχνος τοις ποσιν μου ο λογος σου και φως ταις τριβοις μου [lxx]

… Lámpara … pies … palabra… lumbrera … camino. [es]

The ancient Greek word "τριβούς" ≈ "path" which means, literally, "three cows". It would appear that if three cows could walk through, it was a "path".

The modern Greek word "τρία" (TREE-a) ≈ "three" and comes from the ancient Greek word "τρία" ≈ "three".
The ancient Greek word "βοῦς" ≈ "cow".

More: Cow paths

Currents such as the Gulf Stream were discussed by Benjamin Franklin and others. Such currents were well-known to sailors.

Psalms 8:8 The fowl of the air, and the fish of the sea, and whatsoever passeth through the paths of the seas. [kjv]

τα πετεινα του ουρανου και τους ιχθυας της θαλασσης τα διαπορευομενα τριβους θαλασσων [lxx]

Matthew Fontaine Maury was inspired by this verse, that there were "paths of the seas", to found the modern field of oceanography, publishing his book, "Physical geography of the sea" in 1855.

His nickname was "Pathfinder of the seas" and he was influential in the creation of the United States Naval Academy at Annapolis, a naval version of the military version of the United States Military Academy at West Point.

Note: Most of the Army Air Force was later split off into a separate military branch. The Navy Air Force is still part of the Navy (i.e., mostly on aircraft carriers).

Psalms 8:9 O LORD our Lord, how excellent is thy name in all the earth! [kjv]

Psalms 8:9

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KJV: O LORD our Lord, how excellent is thy name in all the earth!

Hebrew: יהוה אדנינו מה אדיר שמך בכל הארץ׃

Greek: κυριε ο κυριος ημων ως θαυμαστον το ονομα σου εν παση τη γη

Hebrews 2:5 For unto the angels hath he not put in subjection the world to come, whereof we speak. [kjv]

What are the "angels" here mentioned?

What is the "world to come"?

Assuming Paul is the writer of Hebrews, the author may be making a certain point in using the references from Psalms 8.

Let us look at what is in Hebrews 2.

Hebrews 2:5

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KJV: For unto the angels hath he not put in subjection the world to come, whereof we speak.

Greek: ου γαρ αγγελοις υπεταξεν την οικουμενην την μελλουσαν περι ης λαλουμεν

Hebrews 2:6 But one in a certain place testified, saying, What is man, that thou art mindful of him? or the son of man, that thou visitest him? [kjv]

2:7 Thou madest him a little lower than the angels; thou crownedst him with glory and honour, and didst set him over the works of thy hands: [kjv]

Who is the "son of man" who is "visited"? By God?

Is this man in general or the son of man in particular?

Hebrews 2:6

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KJV: But one in a certain place testified, saying, What is man, that thou art mindful of him? or the son of man, that thou visitest him?

Greek: διεμαρτυρατο δε που τις λεγων τι εστιν ανθρωπος οτι μιμνησκη αυτου η υιος ανθρωπου οτι επισκεπτη αυτον

Hebrews 2:7

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KJV: Thou madest him a little lower than the angels; thou crownedst him with glory and honour, and didst set him over the works of thy hands:

Greek: ηλαττωσας αυτον βραχυ τι παρ αγγελους δοξη και τιμη εστεφανωσας αυτον και κατεστησας αυτον επι τα εργα των χειρων σου

Hebrews 2:8

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KJV: Thou hast put all things in subjection under his feet. For in that he put all in subjection under him, he left nothing that is not put under him. But now we see not yet all things put under him.

Greek: παντα υπεταξας υποκατω των ποδων αυτου εν γαρ τω γαρ υποταξαι αυτω τα παντα ουδεν αφηκεν αυτω ανυποτακτον νυν δε ουπω ορωμεν αυτω τα παντα υποτεταγμενα

Hebrews 2:9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man. [kjv]

τον δε βραχυ τι παρ αγγελους ηλαττωμενον βλεπομεν ιησουν δια το παθημα του θανατου δοξη και τιμη εστεφανωμενον οπως χαριτι θεου υπερ παντος γευσηται θανατου [gnt]

This verse refers to Psalms 8 but inserts "Jesus" as that "man".

Hebrews 2:9

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KJV: But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.

Greek: τον δε βραχυ τι παρ αγγελους ηλαττωμενον βλεπομεν ιησουν δια το παθημα του θανατου δοξη και τιμη εστεφανωμενον οπως χαριτι θεου υπερ παντος γευσηται θανατου

Latin: eum autem qui modico quam angeli minoratus est videmus Iesum propter passionem mortis gloria et honore coronatum ut gratia Dei pro omnibus gustaret mortem

Wycliffe: but we seen hym that was maad a litil lesse than aungels, Jhesu, for the passioun of deth crowned with glorie and onour, that he thorouy grace of God schulde taste deth for alle men.

Tyndale: Neverthelesse we yet se not all thynges subdued but him yt was made lesse the ye angelles: we se that it was Iesus which is crouned with glory and honour for the sofferinge of death: that he by the grace of god shulde tast of deeth for all men.

Luther: Den aber, der eine kleine Zeit der Engel gemangelt hat, sehen wir, daß es Jesus ist, durch Leiden des Todes gekrönet mit Preis und Ehren, auf daß er von Gottes Gnaden für alle den Tod schmeckete.

Note that the Greek has follows the LXX with "lower than the angels".

It appears that the KJV did not want Jesus to be too much "lower" than the "angels" so the phrase "little lower" was used.

Tyndale uses "lesse".
Wycliffe uses "litil lesse".

A Middle Ages controversy was the following.

The Dutch Erasmus (who created the artificial Bible Greek pronunciation used by many pastors) insisted the LXX "angels" should be used.
The French Jacques Lefèvre insisted the Hebrew "God" should be used.

Both agreed that the "man" reference was to "Jesus".

Erasmus was so adamant that he published 72 reasons why his interpretation was better.

The German word "schmecken" ≈ "taste" from which we get the Pennsylvania Dutch onomatopoeic expression "das schmecht gut" for "that tastes good". Move your lips as if you were tasting something when you say "schmecht".

More: Word sounds like onomatopoeia

The modern Greek word "γεύση" (EV-see) ≈ "taste" which is related to the Latin word "gustus" ≈ "tasting" from which, through Italian, we get the English word "gusto" for "enthusiasm". The Latin word is related to "digest", "digestion", etc.

Hebrews 2:10 For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings. [kjv]

Hebrews 2:10

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KJV: For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings.

Greek: επρεπεν γαρ αυτω δι ον τα παντα και δι ου τα παντα πολλους υιους εις δοξαν αγαγοντα τον αρχηγον της σωτηριας αυτων δια παθηματων τελειωσαι